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 You've got questions, she's got answers. Be among the first to read Elise Mac Adam's new etiquette guide.
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questions to Elise at indieetiquette@yahoo.com
DO I HAVE TO LEAVE HIM OFF?
Dear Elise, My fiance and I are struggling with how to word our wedding invitation. My mother and my stepmother (who is divorced from my father) are contributing a significant portion to the wedding, and so are my fiance's parents. My father has not yet contributed, although he keeps promising he will have money. I wanted to use the: "the families of..." construction to include all the parents, but my fiance's parents insist that their names appear on the invitation in the Dr. and Mrs. format. They also feel strongly that my father's name should not be on the invitation since he is not paying. My fiance feels the same way. My family is willing to have my father's name on there to keep the peace. My father has not been involved in these discussions at all. We are fighting and having trouble coming to a resolution. Please help! One option is something like the following: The family of (my full name) together with Dr. and Mrs. (his father's full name) Request the pleasure of your company at the marriage of What do you think?
- Frustrated
Dear Frustrated,
My, oh my people are being bossy, aren't they? It is remarkable how bullying people will be about wedding invitations simply because they possess a fundamental and, if I may be frank, silly, misunderstanding of what the invitation says.
The names on the invitation indicate who is hosting the wedding. Perhaps this means that the hosts are paying for the whole thing, but perhaps it doesn't, and one thing that is absolutely certain is this: guests do not study the wedding invitations they receive to try to figure out who is paying for everything. And if they are inclined to this sort of speculation, they are either extremely bored or extremely catty, and whatever they assume will almost certainly be wrong anyway.
People's names appear on invitations who didn't contribute anything to nuptials, conversely other people may request that their names get omitted from invitations, even if they funded large portions of the celebrations.
The solution you offer is perfectly reasonable, if you want to use it and if your mother and stepmother (and father) don't mind having their names left off the invitation. If this is the route that feels most comfortable and easy, you can take it.
Now, format-wise, if you want to include your father on the invitation, and there's no reason not to if this is something you feel strongly about. You would list his name on a single line below the names of your mother and your stepmother. (This is following the "women's names first" tradition.)
But the real problem you face is not a format issue, but a conflict of attitude. So how do you deal with your future in-laws, and your fiance? You can certainly tell them that you understand their fears that people will think that your father contributed to the wedding when he did not (or might not), but that you know that invitations are not the same thing as the lists of executive producers in a movie.
Continue by letting them know that the invitation is the first step in the process that will unite your families and you do not want to create a document (even a disposable one) that will be hurtful to your father. Add that, while you know people can't know who paid for a wedding, you realize that your guests will absolutely assume there is a rift between your father and the rest of the families if his name is the only one that does not appear on the invitation with everyone else's. This is the kind of thing which even if it were the case (which it does not seem to be) you would probably not want to broadcast at your wedding. Perhaps you can appeal to everyone's sense of privacy, if not generosity.
Congratulations,
Elise
posted by Elise at 4:17 AM
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Tuesday, January 27, 2009
FACEBOOK & WEDDINGS: BRAVE NEW WORLD OR BEST LEFT ALONE?
Dear Elise, I'm one of those people who is annoyingly dependant on Facebook. I'm also planning a wedding. Naturally it occurred to me that it might be very easy and fun to make a Facebook group for our wedding (essentially a "wedpage" but on Facebook). One of the big advantages of this is that people could easily upload their photos there after the wedding. However, the problem with it (and all things Facebook) is that although I can make a restricted group and only invite people who will be invited to the wedding, other people will be able to see it. Is making a Facebook wedding group the same as handing out birthday party invitations at school in front of all the people who are NOT invited. What is the etiquette here? I don't want to offend people who I am friends with but can't invite. Yours sincerely, Facecrook
Dear Facecrook,
You're right to hesitate. Isn't one of the purposes of Facebook to see what everyone you know, have met or have ever heard mentioned in passing is doing with or without you? You've precisely identified the problem with this sort of Facebook group. It isn't offensive, per se. Many people may find your page and be perfectly happy to flip though the wedding pictures (or not) and have no problem at all with not having been invited.
You know your crowd (or crowds) best and you will know best how sensitive they are, or tend to be. Is your wedding small and relatively intimate? If so, you have a potential buffer from complaints (because so many people will have been excluded). If it is large, the chances of people minding terribly that they weren't invited are smaller by virtue of the fact that you're including more friends on your guest list. Chances are, someone will feel left out somehow no matter what sort of wedding you have. So you should know that going in to your decision.
Really, what you decide to do depends on your comfort level and how you understand your friends and acquaintances are likely to react. Listen to your gut. If you feel that this is too risky given your set of friends, you might want to find a different way to share pictures (maybe with another online photo service). On the other hand, if you're comfortable with Facebooking your wedding, then feel free.
Congratulations,
Elise
posted by Elise at 2:26 PM
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Monday, January 26, 2009
CONTROL & SHOWER PRESENTS
Dear Elise,
I am planning a combination shower/ bachelorette party for my daughter. It will be held at a hotel (this will entail a bit of driving, a dinner and an overnight stay). Is it acceptable for me to put a note in the invitation telling guests where my daughter is registered and also saying that my daughter "will not be opening the gifts at the dinner"? My daughter is averse to people having to sit through opening the gifts, the ribbon hat, etc. (I don't blame her). Is it acceptable to encourage guests to give gift cards or that they ship the gift to her? I do not want to offend anyone. Thanks in advance for any advice.
- Shower Planner
Dear SP,
Forget the note. Really, it is best to leave out all directives about presents at all, including the registry. While people know that they are obliged to bring presents to a shower, it is still too much of an explicit demand (over the implicit: showers require presents). If people want to know where your daughter has registered, what she might like or where it should be shipped, they can ask you or your daughter when they R.s.v.p. (though of course if the shower has a particular theme you can let your guests know what it will be in the invitation while still omitting specific registry details).
Traditionally speaking, mothers and other close relatives of the bride are not supposed to throw the bridal shower because, again, of the possible mercenary undertones of the gesture: bride's family hosts present giving parties to gather more stuff for her. That is not, of course, your intent and as a practical matter many people throw showers for family members because it is convenient. Having said that, you may just want to keep tradition in mind as another reason not to make any kind of specific present requests or instructions.
As for skipping the endless present-opening portion of the proceedings, you don't need to announce it ahead of time, just don't do it. If you get a couple of peeps in protest just say that your daughter wanted to spend time opening presents when she could be talking to everyone.
You've got a fun overnight bash cooked up. Don't worry so much about shower presents when it comes to invitations. Your guests will either give the presents they want to give or they'll ask you ahead of time and you can gently direct them. To attempt to exert more control will only come off poorly.
Cheers Elise
posted by Elise at 6:43 AM
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Friday, January 23, 2009
SEMANTIC STRUGGLES
Dear Elise,
I am honored to have been asked to stand up for my dear friend in her wedding. She is 22 years old, I am 52 years old and married. I am appalled by the term "matron" of honor and neither she nor I wish to label me this way. Another title, "honor attendant" is not pleasing to either of us either. Is it totally against wedding etiquette to still be the "maid of honor" even if married? Thank you for your time,
- It's All in the Name
Dear It's All,
No one will arrest you and throw you into one of those women's prisons where shelf-breasted matrons (is this the source of your distaste for the word?) will knock you into order if you decide to call yourself a maid of honor.
If you and the bride go with "maid of honor" as your title, your only crime will be using incorrect terminology. If you don't mind this and if you don't mind the likelihood that the guests who notice are likely to be the same guests who are most prone to gloating over "mistakes" like this one, then you can assume whatever title you like and then smile sweetly every time someone points out your error.
Of course you understand that the word "matron" in this context only means "married woman" (as opposed to "maid"). So this leaves you and your friend with a choice: use the correct term that sounds ugly or the wrong title that sounds more appealing?
Using the wrong title isn't offensive or rude, but you may find yourselves having to be patient with a lot of people when they try to "correct" you. Prepare yourselves for a fair amount of tongue biting.
For that matter, is there any need to call yourself anything? You could skip the title entirely and just say that you are standing up for the bride, that you're her right-hand woman, her Gal Friday, her best friend, any or all of the above.
Perhaps you'd really be happiest being free of terminology.
Cheers, Elise
posted by Elise at 10:58 AM
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Wednesday, January 21, 2009
TO GO WITHOUT MEAT?
Dear Elise,
My fiance and I are both vegetarians. Is it rude to have a vegetarian dinner at the reception, or should we include some meat options for our omnivore guests?
Thank you for your help,
Veggie Bride
Dear VB,
The question of whether or not it is acceptable to serve only vegetarian dishes at one's wedding reception comes up frequently. Part of the hesitation comes from a sensitivity about one's guests' expectations and the fear of never hearing the end of it.
These anxieties are normal, but there are ways to face them. First, consider your circumstances. Is someone paying for the reception that believes strongly in having a meat or poultry or fish dish served? If that is the case you would be wise to consider a compromise that takes into account vegetarians and carnivores alike. Do you have a lot of guests who will be counting on meaty dishes and are you worried about disappointing them? On the other hand, if you are free of these sorts of obligations, you can embrace your vegetarian tendencies.
The key will be to provide food that doesn't make everyone think about the fact that they are eating vegetarian cuisine. There are lots of ways to do this, and a caterer could advise you better than I could but the idea is to create a menu that is comfortable and tasty for your guests. You don't have to serve everyone's all time favorite foods, or satisfy specific expectations. Remember that many people are perfectly content to eat something that doesn't have meat in it but would not like to have the same meal described as "vegetarian," a descriptor that to some carries overtones of fermented soy or weirdness.
So, approach this decision with your guests in mind as well as your own sensibilities. Vegetarian receptions are not rude in and of themselves, it is the attitude and circumstances around them that get tricky.
Congratulations,
Elise
posted by Elise at 11:21 AM
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Sunday, January 18, 2009
DOGS & CEREMONIES
Dear Elise, I'm in the final stages of planning my wedding. We were finalizing our invitations with my future mother-in-law when I happened to mention that we want our dogs to be in our wedding. I assumed she knew, but she definitely did not. She's appalled. She thinks it's in the height of poor taste for us to have our dogs present, let alone participating. Her best friend chimed in and started talking about animal cruelty and how horrible it is when people treats their pets as accessories. As I've rescued both my dogs from abusive homes, and don't dress my animals up or carry them in purses, I was so offended I couldn't even speak! Just to be clear, here are the details we have planned: There are three dogs. The one who is the best with crowds, will be the ring bearer. The one who dances when she gets excited will be a flower girl and the shyest of the three will be a "junior groomsman".
Our ceremony will be very short and pictures are going to be taken before the ceremony. We've appointed close friends who are not in the wedding party who are willing to transport them to and from the ceremony and have back ups ready in case anything goes wrong. Our dogs are not yappy or violent. We have made a little basket for Bombshell to wear that has a removable bottom that allows the cloth petals to fall out. We have a small cloth bag that attaches to Gypsy's collar to carry our rings. We've been practicing and training for three months. I believe once the big day rolls around, they'll do their best! I don't care if they're not perfect, it's just important to us that they're present. We'll make sure they relieve themselves before the ceremony and their escorts will have small water bottles and treats ready. How gauche is this decision, really? My dogs are very familiar with all the people in our bridal party, the wedding is outside and very small. However, I don't want my wedding day to turn into a discussion amongst my guests about how we mistreat our dogs! The whole point is that they are family, too. It's a big change in their lives, not just ours. Is this a controversial enough move that we should reconsider? The reason this came up while invitations were being discussed is that I wanted to include a small note mentioning that our dogs will be participating. In case of any allergies or phobias, I want people to forewarned. I was thinking something along the lines of "The couples' dogs will be joining them in celebration of beginning a new life as a family but will not attend the reception, so they can prepare to welcome the newlyweds home." Is there a more appropriate way to phrase this? I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter. Thank you! Sincerely, Fur-vently Awaiting Furry Friend Advice
Dear Fur-vently,
With all due respect to your fiance's mother and her friend, they're completely in the wrong. Animal, particularly dog, participation in wedding ceremonies is not at all uncommon or rude, and clearly from your description of how carefully you have planned for and worked with your dogs, you are treating them well and respectfully. It is also a little peculiar that these women would choose to say that your choice is "crass" or "inhumane" when actually it is simply something they don't particularly care for. I don't know what they don't like about it. Maybe they find it too cute by half. Maybe they're cat people (not Cat People, just to be clear).
So you have a couple of naysayers raining on your nuptial parade now. From here on out, don't talk to them about your choice. Don't raise the issue of the dog participation. Don't try to convince your future mother-in-law to see the light. Don't waste your time and energy. If anyone tries to talk you out of it be polite but refuse to engage. "I understand you feel that way but this is something important to us." "I know you don't like the idea of having the dogs at the ceremony but it really makes us happy and they won't be at the reception." Acknowledge politely, then disengage. This is not a fight you can win. It isn't even a fight you should have to win since you and your fiance are the two people making these choices.
It is not necessary but it is gracious to include an invitation insert your guests know about the presence of dogs at the ceremony. You really can write anything you like but all the information you need to include is: "Bride's Name's and Groom's Name's three dogs will be participating in the ceremony but will not be attending the reception."
You're in the clear. Here's hoping your fiance's mother relaxes and realizes the dog presence is a small detail more important to you and her son than it will be significant to everyone else.
Congratulations,
Elise
posted by Elise at 4:40 AM
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Friday, January 16, 2009
ANNOUNCING A FEW THINGS
Hi Elise,
At the end of this month, my fiance and I will be married in a civil ceremony. My parents will be our witnesses (and will hold our 4-month old daughter). They will not be funding the event. The brief, private ceremony will be held in a historical location; we will have a wedding/family portrait taken there. I do plan to take my fiance's name. We plan to send out printed announcements along with a photo to our family and friends within a few days of our marriage. I hope a wedding announcement will share our news without soliciting gifts from our loved ones (many of whom were generous during the birth of our daughter and during the holidays). What is the right wording for our wedding announcement?
This is what I have right now, which seems fine but not especially warm. As a photograph will accompany the announcement, I’m undecided if it is necessary to include my maiden name. I definitely need to make it clear that my last name will change. Also, without being cute, is there away to include our daughter in the announcement? She will be the photo with us and is of immeasurable importance.
Our Names happily announce their marriage Date Two thousand and nine Place City, State
- Just Doing It
Dear Just Doing It,
Cheers, first, to you on the birth of your daughter.
Now, your announcement sounds perfectly fine. The language you have employed is a variation on the traditional structure, which is simple and to the point. You can modify things if you like but they key is to keep it simple and avoid anything that implies that this is an invitation and not an announcement. (And you are right, of course, not to send these out until after the wedding.)
You must be prepared for people not to realize you have changed your name. Many will notice. Many will notice and forget. Many will realize that they have a wedding announcement in hand and won't figure out that you would also like them to recognize your name change. In most cases they won't actually be trying to be insulting. This is just one of those things you may actually have to point out to people if they don't get it at first.
Don't worry about people suspecting that you're sniffing around for wedding presents with your announcement. Announcements are a long standing tradition and have never implied that presents are required. Anyone who suspects you are gift-grubbing is either longing to feel bitter and put upon or doesn't know which end is up and can safely be ignored.
As for your daughter, the traditional wedding announcement language doesn't tend to make mention of children or family construction. There is no particular reason for this beyond the fact that all the announcement is really doing is saying when and where a couple got married. If you want to modify the language to include your daughter you could say something about how you celebrated with your daughter and your parents, but this is not necessary. Sending a wedding photograph with your daughter in it will speak volumes about her importance to you and your future husband.
Congratulations,
Elise
posted by Elise at 6:49 AM
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Wednesday, January 14, 2009
SHOULD I ADVISE ABOUT KICK-OFF TIME?
Dear Elise,
My fiance and I are planning an evening party in my family's large townhouse that begins with a cocktail hour and passed hors d'oeuvres. Guests will then be asked into the library where they can witness our brief exchange of vows. After that, the party will continue with substantial finger food, drinks and dancing all night. My question is: since the ceremony is much less demarcated than it is at many weddings and I don't want to confuse or annoy guests who might prefer not to have to mingle for an hour if they arrive when the party starts, should I indicate separate start times for the party and ceremony? The ceremony, including shepherding the guests, is likely to take all of 15 minutes so it might be odd to indicate a timeslot for it. How does one do the wording when the wedding ceremony isn't the kick-off event but rather part and parcel of the reception; I don't want people feeling they must rush to arrive by 7pm when it's not a hard starting time.
Also, does it make more sense that I would absent myself for the cocktail hour and then, when everyone is gathered, come into the library on my father's arm or is it more appropriate to just mingle from the start with our guests?
Thanks, Looking forward to my party
Dear Looking Forward,
Tell your prospective guests as little as possible. Give them as few choices as possible. They don't need to think about whether they want to arrive in time for two cocktails or only one, or whether they'll try to get there just in time for the ceremony (which they will proceed to miss because of traffic). No, no. You best bet is to compose your invitations with the cocktail hour start time as the hour the celebration commences. If a few people find themselves rushed and arrive at 7:00 breathless, they can de-stress with a drink and let their blood pressures go down while eating a tiny lamb chop before your ceremony.
While I understand your concern, you aren't really inconveniencing your guests by inviting them to enjoy themselves briefly before the ceremony. An hour is not a lot of time, especially when the ceremony is going to be so brief, and it is entirely gracious to ease into the proceedings after everyone has been given a drink and a snack.
As for the question of your entrance, what do you want to do? There is no need to make a grand appearance if you don't want to. If you'd rather mingle with your friends and family and then gather them around you for the ceremony, nothing should stop you. It is a warm and happy way to handle things, even if it bucks tradition. If you are shy about doing the grand entrance, it makes sense that this would be a great choice. On the other hand, if you have a yen for the dramatic, you may want to walk down the stairs (if that's practical) and sweep into the library escorted by your father (or anyone else). There is nothing more or less appropriate or reasonable about either choice.
In short: do what you want and don't encourage your gusts to make any more decisions than they have to.
Congratulations,
Elise
posted by Elise at 12:22 PM
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Monday, January 12, 2009
IS SHE GOING TO PICK?
Dear Elise,
When does a bride ask her friends/family to be in her wedding party? Does it happen immediately after the engagement announcement? Or, do some brides wait until shortly before the wedding?
My cousin is getting married in about six months. She became engaged over two years ago. Should I assume at this point I am not going to be asked to be in the wedding? I think it is inconvenient to be asked to be in someone's wedding 3-4 months prior to the date of the wedding, when the couple has had a two-and-a-half year engagement.
Thanks
-Wondering
Dear Wondering,
The protocol for wedding party invitation timing has more to do with external issues than any sort of tradition. If, for instance, outfits need to be ordered and fitted, or if any elaborate pre-wedding exercises are taking place the bride and groom may approach potential wedding party members shortly after they get engaged. On the other hand, if the wedding couple isn't much for planning and doesn't care what the wedding party does or wears as long as everyone stands up for them, then they could wait to make these invitations.
At any rate, knowing nothing about your cousin, I couldn't say what she is planning, but it is always sound policy to expect nothing. Sure two years is a long time to spend not making plans while engaged but maybe she's the type who can only plan under pressure.
In any case, I would count on not being a member of the wedding and enjoying the comfort of being a regular "civilian" guest and (probably) the extra cash you will have on hand from not having to buy a dress or pay for a shower.
This could change, of course, and then you'll have to decide if you want to be a bridesmaid, but no one has done anything wrong yet, wedding party-wise, at least.
Cheers, Elise
posted by Elise at 7:32 PM
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Thursday, January 08, 2009
PROBLEM SOLVED
Dear Elise,
Can I wear a fuschia wedding dress? I'm 41, not traditional at all and my fiance is Turkish? I look horrible in white and ivory and can't find a baby pink dress that I like.
Color Me "Brilliant Rose"
Dear Brilliant Rose,
It's your wedding and you can wear whatever suits you. This would be the case regardless of your age, your fiance's country of origin, or any other distracting factors beyond your tastes and interests (aesthetic and practical). The white wedding dress is a very recent Western tradition anyway and there is no need to stick with it unless it amuses you.
Congratulations,
Elise
posted by Elise at 2:39 PM
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Monday, January 05, 2009
ABSENT BRIDESMAID
Dear Elise:
My partner and I have been engaged for just over a year and will be getting married this summer.
Early in the process, I asked my two dearest friends (both of whom live six hours away) to stand by my side as bridesmaids. One of them recently went through a family tragedy, and hasn't really been able to give that much input (understandably). I know that she'll be committed in the next few months, but it's my other bridesmaid that concerns me. She has been very involved in the early stages of planning, and I appreciate all of her efforts. However, her parents have planned a big family vacation abroad for a month in the summer to see her extended family. As luck would have it, the vacation coincides with our wedding. She is won't leave late, or come back early from her family trip (and the trip cannot be rescheduled). It is inevitable that she will not be attending the wedding, which frustrates me a great deal.
My friend hasn't said that she will renounce her role in the wedding party, so how do I deal with this? She told me that she would still like to be involved in the planning, even though she won't attend the actual event. I'm fine with this idea, but then I wonder whether I should ask another friend to be a bridesmaid. (Will that person feel like second pick?) Or should I let it be and have a lopsided bridal party? I also feel as though a decision needs to be made as to her role in the wedding, and I'm not sure how to do that.
- Short a Maid
Dear Short,
This is certainly a disappointment but it does sound as if your friend is doing her best to demonstrate her loyalty to you and to her family. It must be a complete drag for her to find herself caught in the middle.
Chances are, she hasn't talked explicitly about dropping out of your wedding party either because that conclusion seems obvious, or because she isn't ready to admit to you or to herself that this is inevitable. So, if you're feeling impatient, you can always seize the moment yourself. You can talk to her directly (not in email, not through text messages or voice mail) and confirm that she really won't be at your wedding. Let her know that this saddens you but that you do understand that she's up against her family.
Moving on, you don't have to replace your friend in the bridesmaid line up unless you want to. Uneven wedding parties are not at all uncommon, and if this is the easiest and most comfortable situation for you, then don't worry about finding a substitute. Of course, if you do have someone in mind, then you can sub that person in. If you do find a replacement, you can tell your friend that circumstances have changed and you'd be thrilled to include her (or him) in the wedding party.
Beyond that, what are you trying to decide? If you friend will not be at the wedding, she clearly won't be a bridesmaid. She can be an honored friend, someone to whom you can raise a glass en absentia. She can be someone you list in the program (if you have one) as an "absent" bridesmaid (or whatever wording you'd like to conjure), but since she won't be present, all you really must do is confirm that she'll be away, let her know that she'll be missed and that you're really grateful for everything she's done for you and then you proceed.
Congratulations,
Elise
posted by Elise at 5:43 PM
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Friday, January 02, 2009
SAME LOCATION, DIFFERENT WEDDINGS
Dear Elise,
I was ready to book my reception location when I found out that my fiance's cousin was also planning to have her reception in the same location. There was a chance that she would either get married within only a few weeks of us, or perhaps a few months after us. Either way, our reception site doesn't feel as special anymore. I can't ask her to change because she came up with the same idea at the same time as I did, and I don't feel that I have a right to the space over her. The biggest difference is that she will have her ceremony and reception at different locations, while I will hold both the ceremony and reception in that one location. I'm afraid that if I have my wedding in the same room as her, so close in time, and with many overlapping guests, our weddings will be compared instead of being special and unique to each of us.
Should I keep with my original plans, or should I change to an equally nice, but not quite my dream location? However much I would love to stay strong to my original ideas, I'm more afraid I won't be able to get the comparisons between our weddings out of my, or my guest's, minds.
- In a Dilemma
Dear Dilemma,
It really doesn't matter if you and your fiance's cousin get married in the same venue. Your weddings will be different. While some of your guests will overlap, the majority of the people won't be attending both events.
You are right that you can't ask your fiance's cousin to change her plans. That would be a strangely obsessive gesture and one, which would not gain you any friends.
If this is your dream location and this is a place you feel holds special meaning or is ideal for its location or is aesthetically exactly what you want, why on earth would you turn away from it just because someone else will use it? Yours is not the first or the last wedding this venue will host and chances are, there are many, many choices you can make that will give the venue a sense of being particular to your wedding.
As for your fear that your wedding will be compared to your fiance's cousin's, I think you need to think about this anxiety and find a way to sort through it. Of course there is a chance that the weddings will be compared, just as any two weddings may be compared, but there is also as good a chance that they will simply exist as two events that happened in the same (or similar) season. The only way you can really come out on the bad side of the comparison is if you were to have been unpleasant or negative or difficult. If you are happy and ready to celebrate, your venue will be utterly secondary to the happy occasion.
And really, who cares about these guests? If anyone is inclined to attend both weddings with a scorecard, assigning higher and lower marks for flower arrangements or ceremonies, then they aren't people whose opinions you should find too interesting to begin with because they're missing the point.
Choose the venue that pleases you most. Forget about your fiance's cousin unless this is such a stumbling block that you can't get around it. You should feel comfortable, and that can happen in lots of places.
Congratulations,
Elise
posted by Elise at 12:14 PM
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